A bigger picture rework to allow for more diversification in Human Space

[xX-Dillinger-Xx]

I started this in 'Discussions' for ease of ...well, discussion. I hope one day it will get moved to a PR, but PR's aren't the place for discussing an idea. If anyone want's to start a PR, at anytime, feel free. I probably won't feel comfortable enough to do one myself for quite awhile.

There seems to be a growing consensus that there are some issues around diversification in human space.
I would like to throw my hat into the ring with a series of ideas for improvements. It's a bigger picture kind of idea.
I'm taking everything I've read and the knowledge that more human space campaigns are coming, into account. Many of the ideas are just me thinking out loud. It's more about getting a conversation started and get people thinking, in an organized fashion. Good discussion fuels inspiration and innovation.

All I ask, is to keep an open mind, see where this leads, and don't get bogged down in minor details at first. I'm a smart guy who just wants to help but lacks the skills to do it directly. I'm aware that some of this will require some re-balance work but, if done right, will set the stage for some good future stories and missions, etc.
Additionally, it may cause some issues with save files and plugins, but to that I would say that at some point, that may become a necessary evil in order to move forward anyway. I don't think plugin developers would mind too much if it's for the betterment of ES, as a whole. As for save files, I certainly wouldn't mind starting from scratch for a whole new experience. Additionally, I don't think you should let the fear of breaking a plugin or breaking backward compatibility hinder future development.

We've all seen multiple suggestions:

• adjust stats balance
• don't adjust stats balance
• hide certain outfits for a later reveal
• add even more ships and outfits
• bring in outfits from other species
• etc.etc.
  I would like to see if it's possible to bring some of these ideas together to create one big cohesive idea, as a group. Right now it looks like a bunch of people working on separate solutions, on there own. Individually, some don't make sense, but when they become part of a bigger picture, they work.

My idea revolves around the redistribution of existing assets, and maybe adding a few more. I'm referring to ships and outfits.

Currently, there is a huge imbalance (I don't mean stats) of ships and outfits amongst the 3 main factions. The Republic has the Navy. Free Worlds gets 2 new ships and 3 new weapons. The Syndicate doesn't get much of anything except regenerators and nukes, which aren't even identified as theirs. Also, what they do have isn't restricted in anyway and what they get has a very short in game life span. If the Syndicate is supposed to keep secrets where are all the results of their secret work and projects? Being constantly raided buy the Korath, I'm sure they have retrieved some good stuff and as a result have some more interesting tech available at some point.

Now pirates are stealing things all the time and it makes sense they might have some good engineers. Now, are these engineers payed, are they prisons, or both? I find it very believable for them to have some modified ships (i.e. Marauders) and outfits, even some tech from other species. They become our hints to what might be out there. Maybe, they even have stolen prototypes that they have modified to suit their needs. < more hints. Also, prototypes would explain the weaker versions needed to maintain game balance. While hinting that maybe the player will get access to better versions later.

Part one of my idea would be to try to reassign and redistribute some of the 80 ships in human space. The idea is to try and balance things out amongst the three factions. Pirates, could benefit as well. Discuss this topic in the next post down.

Part two would involve all the outfits. There are certain outfits that could be made faction specific and even locked behind licenses. We can discuss this topic two posts down.

Comments about the idea in general can go in the 3rd post down. I didn't know you wouldn't be able comment directly under the 1st one

[xX-Dillinger-Xx]

SHIPS

There are, if my count is correct, 80 ships in human space, if you count Marauders. Some of these are pirate versions and aren't currently in game.

• 9 Marauders non purchasable but capturable without any additional repercussions and very public
• 9 Republic Navy specific that require some sort of Navy license and are very public
• 2 Militia (free worlds) Requires militia license
• the Bactrian (locked behind a Deep mission)
• the Kestrel (locked until later in game)
• 0 Syndicate locked ships
• 58 many are free to purchase anywhere by anyone. This 58 also includes the currently unavailable pirate versions, which I don't know the plans for.

What could we do to redistribute some of the 58?

• The Protector and Vanguard are Syndicate produced.
  • maybe give one of these a little love and lock it behind a license.
• make a Syndicate Securities variant of the Quicksilver to rival the Rep. Gunboat.
  • lock it behind a license.
  • I've never even bought a Quicksilver, only ever captured pirate owned ones.
  • Another odd thing is pirates have a marauder versions but Syndicate Security only has the civilian version
• maybe take a couple of the currently unused 'pirate versions' and give them to the FW or Synd.

Just like anything Navy, license locked Syndicate and/or FW ships are capturable, but that comes at a cost unless becoming a pirate is your goal.

[Zitchas]

I'm all in favour of heavy warships being hard to get. Mediums too, for that matter. I don't even think they need buffing. They should all need licenses for regular purchase, and very hard to capture from anything less than them.

There only things being freely available on the open market should be civilian ships. Honestly, the Clipper and other "freighters with good combat potential", along with a variety of light warships should be the best combat suis that can be purchased without earning some trust from their respective shipyards and governments.

[xX-Dillinger-Xx]

I see Quantumshark is working on buffing the Quicksilver, which works nicely with what I have suggested to do with the Quicksilver for Syndicate Security
We could always swap to Proton guns to stick to the Synd, theme.

[bene-dictator]

I have thought in the past of making Particle Cannons restricted to the Navy / Syndicate but leaving Proton Guns a civilian outfit.

[xX-Dillinger-Xx]

I was looking at the current Marauder Quicksilver. Could we copy that and assign it to Syndicate Security?
It would need to be tweaked it a little. I like the idea of the reverse thrusters but that doesn't fit with heavy lasers so it would need different guns.

[Hurleveur]

I have thought in the past of making Particle Cannons restricted to the Navy / Syndicate but leaving Proton Guns a civilian outfit.

I almost prefer the proton to it anyway honestly, especially in turret form its almost busted

[xX-Dillinger-Xx]

OUTFITS

There are a lot of outfits we can play around with.
Let me use the Synd. regenerators as an example.

• Identify it as Syndicate (currently it is not)
• make the small one available from the start
  • it would need to match the equivalent "D" version. Not exactly, but close enough to be similar.
• maybe add a 3rd version
• other larger versions should be seen in Syndicate outfitters but not available without a license.
  • this exposes the player to possibility they may be able to get a 'Syndicate Securities License' some day. Which also leads player to question; "How do I get that and I wonder what else I might get with it?" This is an incentive to consider joining them when the opportunity does present itself.

When I was chatting with bene-dictator, and he had this question, "Why wouldn't the Rep. be using Synd regens?" Well, because there wouldn't be a big enough advantage. If the only one publicly available is just the small one, they wouldn't want to pay for them when they could just use their own. Now the player might see an advantage to purchase a small one. The Syndicate won't sell the Republic the larger ones, for whatever reason. Maybe they want to maintain some sort of advantage, just in case.

Hecter94 suggested this; "Armageddon Core could be buffed above the Fusion Reactor and then made Navy-exclusive." in a different topic.

I just covered one example but please suggest any that you feel could be altered or reassigned for any faction. I think you get the whole idea.

[bene-dictator]

Why buyable, we don't have any other buyable licenses do we? Maybe, buyable after a certain point in the story could make sense. The Synd. are all about money, correct?

There used to be licenses for large ships that the player had to purchase, but MZ removed them because he felt they were not a meaningful blocker. However, I don't see a problem here, and besides, it kind of serves a narrative purpose that the Syndicate would charge you before you can buy their goods.

So, based on the updated knowledge, my question is why isn't there Korath inspired tech in Syndicate space? Why only jump drives?
How would we stop the Korath inspired tech from spreading across human space? Maybe, they aren't for sale, and are really hard to plunder. The Syndicate added security measures that render them useless if plundered.

Well, as the Free Worlds story describes, the Syndicate did a decent job of hiding the Korath from the public. Korath tech is a bit higher level than Hai tech so it's not inconceivable that there were little results from their study, I still don't see why there couldn't be any; it'd probably be a large plot point in the Syndicate campaign.

[xX-Dillinger-Xx]

I think some Korath inspired prototypes might be an additional way to go. Being prototypes , they wouldn't be as good as the real thing (helps maintain balance) and would help to slightly discourage farming, in favour of seeking out the real thing.

Why prototypes? Why wouldn't the Synd just use the captured tech directly?

the Syndicate did a decent job of hiding the Korath from the public.

So, I guess if they are hiding the Korath's existence then they really wouldn't want to risk exposure by using the tech directly. They would want to reverse engineer things to make it "look like" it was all their own work. It fits the Syndicate keep secrets theme.

[Zitchas]

There used to be licenses for large ships that the player had to purchase, but MZ removed them because he felt they were not a meaningful blocker. However, I don't see a problem here, and besides, it kind of serves a narrative purpose that the Syndicate would charge you before you can buy their goods.

That was before my time, but I also disagree with it. While purchasable licenses wasn't much of a blocker (money is easy to get) it also wasn't a problem, either. What it was, at least to me, was a goal, an achievement, and gave a sense of progress and moving up in the world. It also reinforced the whole FW complaint about Republic bureaucracy, too. It can also be a bit of a "guide" for new players. Right out the gate as a brand new player, you probably shouldn't be buying heavy rockets, for instance. Once you've been playing long enough to purchase the "heavy ordinance license," though, you are probably readier to expand your options.

So in my view it was a win for:

• providing some subtle guidance,
• providing in-game lore,
• generating empathy with the FW,
• giving the player some goals that aren't campaign or Get Bigger Ship related
• give a sense of achievement
• can act as a kind of "tax" on whatever is locked behind those licenses.
• opportunity to make pirate outfitters/shipyards more appealing because they obviously won't check for licenses. (It'd be great if we could make an outfit count as illegal so long as the appropriate license wasn't present. Great for pirate gameplay)

[xX-Dillinger-Xx]

Sounds like we have 4 votes for adding buyable license's. They shouldn't be too cheap.
If I tie in my other idea of having "combat rating" mean more in the game, you could also add a lock that prevents buying certain ones unless you have a high enough rating. You could take it even one step further and also look at reputations. So you would need money, skills, and a good reputation to be able to buy certain licenses.

Another idea; a Mining License that allows you to legally sell high value mined goodies. The low value stuff doesn't need a license. The Mining License could also come with a list of systems that are known to have high value asteroids. And, again pirate systems don't care because "they obviously won't check for licenses."

[Zitchas]

I think my preference would be to keep combat rating separate from licenses, it perhaps be an alternate way to get them.

For example, have some generic Navy anti-pirate patrols that get bigger and tougher as your combat rating goes up, and at various points the Navy contact issues you the various licenses as rewards. So it would be a different way to get them for those who are good with combat and not so good with cash flow.

[xX-Dillinger-Xx]

Main Comment Discussion:

I missed the fact you can't directly comment under the first post.

[xX-Dillinger-Xx]

I see some progress is being made in adding some new planets etc. in PR #9817 and PR #9917. This idea, in conjunction with these new additions, might inspire some new plans for human space. Some are planned for use by pirates but I do see Taylor, a moon in the Sheratan system, is going to have a large restricted Syndicate Military base.

[xX-Dillinger-Xx]

I was re-reading some older discussions and found a rather lengthy one in my other 'discussion' about battles being too short.
It starts with a comment by Quantumshark here.

The short version (TL:DR) We need more diversification to allow the player to tweak their ships to suit their preferences. This can allow them to gain an advantage and introduce them to the concept of mixing and matching faction-specific items for later in the game.
Currently, we do not have this.

Quantumshark and bene-dictator are both suggesting we need more diversity, of outfits and ships, in human space. I would suggest you go and read their comments for clarity. I don't see any point in duplicating them here.

Hecter94 is suggesting that adding some, might be good, but not to add too many. This is his key point; "If we were going to introduce unique faction-specific equipment and load-outs, I'd limit it to just a few per faction, enough to give the player a slight edge and introduce them to the concept of faction-specific outfits without it being an overwhelming amount of information to process right at the start of the game." I tend to agree with this point.

bene-dictator also had this to say;
Endless Sky's development goal has been, for a while now, the three main human campaigns, and after all this time we still only have one of at least three implemented. We will need some more faction specific equipment for at least one of the two other campaigns – though Navy ships might be good enough for the Republic campaign, there is nothing much we can't normally access ingame through FW that the Syndicate can't give you (namely nukes, ionic afterburners, and regenerators)
This helps support my whole idea behind this 'Discussion'. Now would be a good time to consider my ideas, while the other 2 campaigns are still being worked on.